The Lady Speaks

Huckabee Wants a Christian Constitution

Remember that stuff we learned in classes like Civics and American History and Principles of Democracy? Well, some of us learned. Obviously, considering El Pollo Loco is still the President, some of us slept through them.

But I digress….

We learned that the founders, having the examples of the Old World right there in front of their faces, believed in a government invested and run by its people. A government without a state-sponsored religion, that allowed any of its citizens – well, the white and male ones — to hold any office regardless of their private religious beliefs and practices.

Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave after hearing Mike Huckabee talk to a Michigan audience yesterday.

From Raw Story: [and yes, there’s video — Jenn]

“I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution,” Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. “But I believe it’s a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that’s what we need to do — to amend the Constitution so it’s in God’s standards rather than try to change God’s standards so it lines up with some contemporary view.” [my emphasis]

Say what??

Shortly after this aired, small rumbles were heard coming from the ground near Monticello.

You know what we call this, Mike Huckabee, when someone takes a perfectly good Constitution — one that’s lasted 230 years or so — and changes it to “God’s standards”? We call that a “theocracy.” We also tend to call it “complete and utter bullshit spewed from the mouth of a madman.” (Well, most of us do. The Christianist nuts who support you call it something else, I’m sure.)

Let me give you a few examples of countries in which “God’s standards” reign (or reigned) supreme: The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, The Islamic Republic of Iran

But wait … there’s more! Saudi Arabia? Oligarchy for the wealthy, theocracy for everyone else. Iraq used to be a dictatorship, but we went and brought them “freedom,” so now it’s a …. fucking mess. Democracy, theocracy, and thuggery.

Back in what’s often called the “Dark Ages”, there were Christian-based governments all over Europe. Britain, France, Spain, etc. Know what came of that? Lots of rich priests, religious wars, and a whole lot of Inquisition.

Here at home, the Massachusetts colony, founded by people — fundamentalists, as a matter of fact — who sought relief from the religious persecution they faced in Britain only to turn around and make religious persecution the heart and soul of their laws.

Roger Williams, he man who founded Providence, Rhode Island was expelled from the Massachusetts Puritan colony in 1636 for dissent. 1

Rhode Island, the colony founded by Williams, was the first colony to truly embrace religious freedom was established in 1647 and became a destination for those persecuted for their beliefs. Just five years later, it would become the first colony to abolish slavery.2

The Salem “witches” weren’t the only ones killed by the religious fervor of our Pilgrim ancestors. Four Quakers were killed by the colony, including a woman named Mary Dyer, for “repeatedly defying a law banning Quakers from the territory.” 3

In 1835, Alexis de Tocqueville, had this to say about his tour of the United States and the idea of separation of church and state.

I found that they [clergymen, including several Roman Catholic priests] differed upon matters of detail alone, and that they all attributed the peaceful dominion of religion in their country mainly to the separation of church and state. I do not hesitate to affirm that during my stay in America I did not meet a single individual, of the clergy or the laity, who was not of the same opinion on this point.4

Now, lest anyone think I’m completely against all forms of religion – no. Do I hate Christians? No. In fact, a great many people I love and care about are Christians. However, I am against the government enshrining the principles of any one religion, regardless of its name.

I do not want a Christian-based, nor an Islamic-based, nor a Hindu-based, nor a Wiccan-based government. I want a government that keeps its nose out of religious affairs except when those practices and doctrines are in direct conflict with the law (ie: no sacrificing of infants, no dancing naked on Main Street, etc.) and/or presents a danger to those outside the religion (ie: Christianist militia-types planning attacks).

Truth be told, if you want to kill all your followers with poisoned koolaid, the government and the ATF should stay out of it. A few less crazies cannot be a bad thing.

I would also like the various religions to keep their noses out of government. I don’t want the Mike Huckabees of the world telling me what I can and cannot do based on what their particular sky god says. If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. If you think premarital sex – or sex in general – is wrong, don’t do it. If you think homosexuality is wrong, don’t have gay sex. If you think the use of birth control is wrong, stop using it.

When it comes to morality, the only person your gods or goddesses should be able to control is yourself.
But, most of all, stop telling the rest of us how to behave.

And now, a few words from one of our Founders, before he begins tunneling to the center of the earth:

“[If] the nature of… government [were] a subordination of the civil to the ecclesiastical power, I [would] consider it as desperate for long years to come. Their steady habits [will] exclude the advances of information, and they [will] seem exactly where they [have always been]. And there [the] clergy will always keep them if they can. [They] will follow the bark of liberty only by the help of a tow-rope.” –Thomas Jefferson to Pierrepont Edwards, July 1801. 5

“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.” –Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21 5

“I have been just reading the new constitution of Spain. One of its fundamental bases is expressed in these words: ‘The Roman Catholic religion, the only true one, is, and always shall be, that of the Spanish nation. The government protects it by wise and just laws, and prohibits the exercise of any other whatever.’ Now I wish this presented to those who question what [a bookseller] may sell or we may buy, with a request to strike out the words, ‘Roman Catholic,’ and to insert the denomination of their own religion. This would ascertain the code of dogmas which each wishes should domineer over the opinions of all others, and be taken, like the Spanish religion, under the ‘protection of wise and just laws.’ It would show to what they wish to reduce the liberty for which one generation has sacrificed life and happiness. It would present our boasted freedom of religion as a thing of theory only, and not of practice, as what would be a poor exchange for the theoretic thraldom, but practical freedom of Europe.” –Thomas Jefferson to N. G. Dufief, 1814. ME 14:128 5

“Whenever… preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.” –Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:281 5

– – – – –

1. Wikipedia

2. Wikipedia

3. Women’s History

4. Democracy in America,1835, Book One Part 3 Chapter 17, Section 6. “Principal Causes Which Render Religion Powerful in America.” via Wikipedia

5. Thomas Jefferson on Politics and Government


January 16, 2008 - Posted by | America, Christianity, Constitution, Election '08, Government, Politics, Religion, Republicans


  1. Seems Rev. Mike forgot that Blblical edict, straight from the mouth of Jesus, “Render onto Caeser that which is Caeser’s, and onto God that which is God’s” About as clear, as anything, I have heard, saying Separation of Church and State is good, for the Church and the State.
    Back off Huckabee….

    Comment by Mom | January 16, 2008 | Reply

  2. I’m really starting to hope Huckabee wins the Republican nomination. The implosion of the party would be guaranteed as Republicans are forced to acknowledge they like to talk the talk, but have zero interest in walking the walk.

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 17, 2008 | Reply

  3. You say Inquistion like it’s a bad thing. Just think of all the job creation. Inquisitors, cleaners, craftsman for all those fun devices, plus those jobs recently vacated by the weak.

    Comment by evabaruk | January 17, 2008 | Reply

  4. Secretary of Torture?

    Comment by Mom | January 17, 2008 | Reply

  5. LMAO, eva! True, Republicans like the Malkintent would tell us an Inquisition could be good for the economy. All those poor “slackers,” working two jobs and falling behind – their worries would be over, and the unhealthy ones can be taken care of without having the government pay for their medical care. Plus, population control is good for the environment, and execution of all lawbreakers, even the ones stealing bread to feed their children, means lower carbon outputs! (Not to mention a good example to keep the citizens in line.) Wins all ’round!

    I imagine once Huckster is the nominee, my “plan” will become a central plank of the Republican Party.

    Mom: We all know that position would be Cheney’s for life.

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 18, 2008 | Reply

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