The Lady Speaks

3000

On the last day of the year, the DoD announces the name of the 3000th soldier to die in Iraq.

From the Associated Press, via msnbc.com:

Spc. Dustin R. Donica, 22, of Spring, Texas, was killed Thursday by small arms fire in Baghdad, the Defense Department said.

And the White House continues to spew its bullsh*t:

Asked about the 3,000 figure, deputy White House press secretary Scott Stanzel said Sunday that the president “will ensure their sacrifice was not made in vain.”

“We will be fighting violent jihadists for peace and security of the civilized world for years to come. The brave men and women of the U.S. military are fighting extremists in order to stop them from attacking on our soil again,” Stanzel said.

A complete listing of those who died in our names is available at Iraq Coalition Casualty Count.

Mission Accomplished, Mr. President?

 

 

 

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December 31, 2006 - Posted by | America, Bush, Cheney, Children, Civil War, Condoleeza Rice, Government, Iraq, Middle East, Pentagon, Rumsfeld, US Military, War, White House

13 Comments »

  1. 3000 is just a number, a measure, nothing more. If death and numbers bother you consider the numbers of people who died as a result of attacks by Islamic Terrorists. There have been 7083 reported terror attacks by Islamic terrorists since September 11, 2001. How many wounded? Let’s go one better, how many Children die each year on skateboards, bikes, roadways, and any number of extreme sports, or through abuse? All of the people presumably have families and friends who will miss them. Dead is dead. To a family member it matters little if you were killed in combat or you froze to death because you could not afford heat.

    None of the 3000 service members were drafted, none went awol, and none were cowards who let others go in their place. None hid behind mantras like “war is evil” or “we are worse terrorists” “President Bush is a bigger terrorists then …” we should not complain about there sacrifice without even having the decency to first check the numbers.

    All of these service members made a decision to commit themselves to a cause. We have a real shortage of people willing to take risks or stand up for what they believe. In the past we lost far more soldiers in a few hours than we have in this current struggle. As much as I feel for the families of the fallen, the simple fact remains they are doing an outstanding job, the numbers should be considerably higher. It is a testament to their training and commitment that this number is not doubled or worse. No matter why we went or if it was the right thing to do, they are there. More will die; this is the world we live in folks. Turning tail and leaving sounds wonderful, but it dooms the entire Sunni population, the Shia majority will eat them and their children. This could easily spread to Kuwait, Saudi, Pakistan and Iran. Parts of Africa are already fighting the same Muslim mindset we are attempting to change in Iraq. If we do not get this under control it will spread and millions will die.

    Comment by Ronin | December 31, 2006 | Reply

  2. Thank you Tony Snow, Jr.

    It’s far more than a number. It is 3000 families without a father or mother, sister or brother, son or daughter. It’s 3000 lives lost for a lie. It’s 3000 lives lost for NO REASON.

    Our presence in Iraq is helping the Sunnis how exactly? Iraqis – Sunni and Shi’a – are dying at a rate of 3000 PER MONTH. And, who are the terrorists? The Sunnis who kidnap, torture and kill Shi’as? Or the Shi’as who kidnap, torture, and kill Sunnis? Al-Qaeda? Osama? (And where, by the way, is the mastermind of the Sept. 11th attacks, hmm?)

    Iraq is a bloodbath and nothing we do (or don’t do) will change that at this point. Our soldiers are caught in the middle of a civil war, and thanks to piss-poor planning from Day One, the United States has lost any ability it might have had to affect real change in Iraq. The best we can do is get our troops out of harms way while we still can.

    Comment by PA_Lady | December 31, 2006 | Reply

  3. It’s far more than a number. It is 3000 families without a father or mother, sister or brother, son or daughter. It’s 3000 lives lost for a lie. It’s 3000 lives lost for NO REASON.

    For No reason is just your opinion. I know of entire villages in the tame areas of Iraq (yes there are some, many in fact) who have a different opinion. Many areas are safer than they have ever been, that doesn’t get reported. We have Infantry soldiers who spent their entire tour in Iraq and never fired a single round that doesn’t get reported. I am a father and I risked my own life and potentially the future of my own family serving in our military. My direct actions have both defended and killed Muslims in several countries. That was my choice, my job and I am proud of it. Some times you have to play hardball. Americans are a great people and are shocked to see villagers send children into mine fields to retrieve a cow. Muslims explained that to me with a shrug and this explanation “we have many children, only one cow”. We can’t talk to these people, we can control them, reeducate their youth and show them a better way to live. They are taught only to hate outside their group. What does the American military bring to them? Living proof people of deferent religions, ethnic groups and cultures can and do live differently and more importantly are willing to show them how.

    Our presence in Iraq is helping the Sunnis how exactly? Iraqis – Sunni and Shi’a – are dying at a rate of 3000 PER MONTH. And, who are the terrorists? The Sunnis who kidnap, torture and kill Shi’as? Or the Shi’as who kidnap, torture, and kill Sunnis? Al-Qaeda? Osama? (And where, by the way, is the mastermind of the Sept. 11th attacks, hmm?)

    Muslim have killed other Muslims for almost 1400 years, they stop momentarily to kill non-Muslims. The number you tossed out (3000) is probably low but would go up if we leave. We lose far more Americans each month to car wreaks but you still drive don’t you? The terrorists are the ones who refuse to see killing each other is no answer. If we leave and the insurgents win, Iraq still will have no working government or Infrastructure. Millions of Iraqis are standing up to fight or serve their elected Government, that is no small feat. How many postal workers would we have if people started shooting at them? Or, Doctors, lawyers, etc.

    Iraq is a bloodbath and nothing we do (or don’t do) will change that at this point. Our soldiers are caught in the middle of a civil war, and thanks to piss-poor planning from Day One, the United States has lost any ability it might have had to affect real change in Iraq. The best we can do is get our troops out of harms way while we still can.

    You are partially right nothing we can do will stop all the violence but we have tamed Muslim crazies in other places, Bosnia and Kosovo come to mind. Are they safe places? Safer than parts of some of our own major cities but safe-no, under some sort of control-depends on whom you ask. Is Iraq now a civil war? Yes, I think it would qualify but again watching millions kill themselves off while fun is not a solution. Who else has a hope of stopping this the UN, China, Russia, the Muslims themselves? No one can or would even try to stabilize Iraq if the USA left. The Sept 11th attack is a history lesson, the money trail and bragging rights head straight to militant Islam. Our military will eventually move out of the more hostile areas and build bases in the safer areas just in case they are needed. We will not always take the brunt of the battle, the Iraqis are actually doing more than most people realize. We will eventually leave but some where another crazie will become the next Saddam. Asking our military not to get involved is like asking a firefighter to just let a building burn when he knows children are inside. I have seen enough dead children, I am willing to kill the parents if that is the only way to save the kids. Kids can be taught to hate or not to hate, adults are the problem.

    Comment by Ronin | December 31, 2006 | Reply

  4. Thank you for your service. I hope you understand that my anger is not at the military themselves, but at the idiots who lied and put them in harms way. Those who serve do so at incredible risk and see damned little in return, from people or from their government.

    The history of Iraq is littered with foreign occupiers who had absolutely zero effect – other than uniting the population against them. What makes you think the US is doing/will do any better than those who came before?

    Asking our military not to get involved is like asking a firefighter to just let a building burn when he knows children are inside.

    This is a terrible analogy. First, the firefighter has the proper equipment and tools to enter the burning building – with little risk to his own life – and second, because, sadly, no firefighter would be allowed to enter a burning building that is about to collapse, regardless of the age of the soul inside. Your analogy implies a lack of planning and forethought – a suicidal attempt to save one life that will kill two. (Which is exactly the problem in Iraq.)

    Sadly, the fact is no one, not even the military, is going to be able to “stabilize” Iraq. The invasion was based on lies, there was no threat to the US, and – despite Bush’s justifications for staying – our military isn’t going to be able to stop the bloodbath.

    That was a job for diplomats and negotiators and historians, who should have been in from the beginning. Instead, the US blundered every step. First, they appointed a ‘Governour-General’ (Bremer) and then appointed a slew of Iraqi politicians (the ones we liked) and when it all when to hell because of ancient resentments, Bush stood there with egg on his face telling us everything is just fine, victory, victory, last throes, turned the corner….blah, blah, blah.

    The Sept 11th attack is a history lesson, the money trail and bragging rights head straight to militant Islam.

    True. But, while all that heads directly to militant Islam, and Osama (who’s still missing!) it never, ever led to Saddam and Iraq. Iraq was and remains an innocent party in the Sept 11th attacks. This was why Bush I supported containment – Saddam was a secular (and yes, tyrannical) leader. He was a thorn in the sides of Iran, in particular, and the Islamists in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc.

    Osama and Al-Qaeda and the rest of the militants have much to be happy about these days. We established a government just like Iran’s, and the US is doing its recruiting for them. Woo. Go us.

    I have seen enough dead children, I am willing to kill the parents if that is the only way to save the kids. Kids can be taught to hate or not to hate, adults are the problem.

    And thus speaks the ass. What is the result if you kill “Abu” and his brothers? Abu’s children and his brothers’ children see “AMERICANS KILLED PAPA” and guess what? They – surprisingly, I know – HATE AMERICANS. Their neighbors’ children see that the Americans killed Abu, Jr’s papa, so they start worrying about their own papa, so they HATE AMERICANS.

    Is there really any question as to why 80% of Iraqis want us out of their country?

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 1, 2007 | Reply

  5. Actually the little in return could be argued. I have had nothing but the best of care from the VA and absolutely zero complaints. The people in Government I will give you, both the Republicans and Democrats have sent me into harms way, I see little difference between politicians. I know that is not PC but that is how I feel. They all worry more about votes than what is good for our nation. I still think the firefighter analogy works. The militaries piss poor equipment was not the Republicans fault although they do get the blame for sending them in with it. I lived through Clinton’s rain of terror (called a drawdown) we didn’t have money or the equipment to train with for years. He did more damage to the American military in 8 years than any recent conflict. The result was painfully obvious our military was weakened and it costs lives. They were not ready when they were needed. You might be right about firefighters not conducting suicide missions but out military does. We make every attempt and go to great lengths not to but they will and have done them. Our military fully realizes that sacrifices will have to be made to win. History judges us and it is written by the winner. Was Kuwait City liberated or bombed into submission? I think they would depend on where you were when the bombs fell and which side you claimed.

    I am not now nor have I ever justified why or if we should have went into Iraq. I just point out what our leaving will cause. Militant Islam has the potential of dominating Europe and the west and in our lifetime, global warming, killer asteroids and other catastrophic event’s pail in comparison. I worry little about them hating Americans for attempting to enforce order. They will be raised to hate us no matter what the outcome in Iraq turns out to be. I wish I believed we could peacefully coexist with everyone, I do not. Radical Islam is here and it is attempting to destroy us. It uses both military and non-military methods. The are quick to jump on any group they think will help them, the anti war crowd is just one such example. We are not fighting the non-military side of this war.

    We can no longer blindly except everyone into our homeland and in the name of cultural diversity refuse to question if they have agendas other than peaceful ones. If you are right and we are pissing off other countries and people and in large numbers the next conclusion would have to point for a desire for revenge. I think by now any normal and rational leader realizes we can not be defeated militarily, we can be defeated from the inside. I see attempts to infiltrate our government, our industrial base and our military. To not realize that and counter it can only lead to our way of life being lost. The Muslims themselves will admit they can not handle the radicals, if we don’t help them there will be no one to help. Iraq is the center of this fight. It matters little who or why we cot to this point. What matters is who wins. I see Iraq as a tiny piece of this fight.

    Comment by Ronin | January 1, 2007 | Reply

  6. I just meant that “soldiering” isn’t what you’d call a ‘lucrative’ career. If they paid our troops what they’re worth…well, you’d see darned few Presidents willing to let 3000 millionaires die. 🙂

    I do agree, for the most part, on the politicians. I hope the new 110th Congress will be different, but I’m not putting money on it.

    The draw-downs actually started with BushI, because of technological advances (Rumsfeld/Cheney again) and because it was felt certain ‘jobs’ (mess hall, sanitation, etc.) could be done better, at less cost, by businesses. (Cheney/Halliburton) The base-closings/draw-downs started way before Clinton got there, and they continued even after Republicans gained control of the Congress in 1994.

    The thing is, those of us who are anti-war aren’t ‘Friends of Al-Qaeda”. We want Al-Qaeda and all other Islamist groups eliminated. We want Osama found, put on trial, put to death. We simply recognize that in turning to Iraq, the US ignored Afghanistan – the true front on the GWOT – to the point that the Taliban is attempting a comeback, we ignored/stopped looking for Osama, and we’ve allowed Afghanistan to become the #1 supplier of the world’s heroin.

    Instead of dealing with Afghanistan and Osama and Al-Qaeda, we attacked a country that was no threat to us, destabilized it beyond any real hope of recovery (at least not within 10-15 years) and created a breeding ground for Islamists.

    Iraq has already devolved into tribal factions, and the killing will continue, with each sect kidnapping, torturing, and killing its ‘foes’. There’s no changing it, no heading it off, no stopping it. No escalation of US troops is going to be enough to deal with it – not unless a draft is called and 500K US troops are sent in.

    So, the question is: Do we allow our troops to be caught in the inevitable crossfire, or do we bring them home?

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 1, 2007 | Reply

  7. The draw down I was talking about is still continuing. Clinton did drop us from a 600 ship Navy to under 300 and we lost entire divisions from the Army, squadrons from the Airforce etc, all without firing a shot. I could go on but it is past. The republicans continue it. We still have base realignments/closings, the money for contractors is expected to dry up; all of these translate to one thing – a weaker country. We disagree on Iraq not because I want our troops to stay but because we differ on when and under what circumstances they should leave.

    Changes have to be made or it really is a lost cause. We have to move past armchair generals leading from the Pentagon and let the soldiers on the ground run this war. That in it self is impossible to many failed egos and I don’t trust the American politicians to support the troops. I figure they would instead wait for any excuse to point fingers and try and ride the wave politically. It would only be a matter of time before a wrong choice was blasted globally by our own media, we have all seen that show too many times. Reality is we have made errors and we will make more but most pale in comparison to chopping off heads and methodical rape and murder by slow torture. Despite the horrific atrocities committed by the enemy daily we still see far more media coverage on America’s mistakes. Or our national security takes a backseat to coverage of a failing star that can’t afford underwear. I think our priorities as a nation is all screwed up. Two wrongs don’t make a right but apple and orange comparison only demoralize the troops and further the cause of the enemy.

    If we are not going to fight at 100%, then lets surrender, forcible convert all Americans to Islam, behead all homosexuals, help Iran to destroy not only Israel but track down anyone globally with more than 20% Jewish blood and kill them too. All non Muslim places of worship will be converted into Mosques, all singers, actors and other employed by the entertainment industry well collect their last check (at least it takes Rosie O’Donnel off the air). It will take us a few years to properly switch over to Sharia and then we can roll up all the nations of the world under one world government, pausing only to decide which variant of Islam to follow, kill the others and finally we will have world peace.

    The other option is not pretty, fight with no limitations. I am not just talking about brute force but an all out us or them attack, control our borders, crack down on media supportive to radical Islam, pass anti treason legislation and enforce it. No more foreign aid of any type for any reason to nations who do not hold themselves to the same high standards we do (I realize we also need work but who is doing it better). You want to brag about murdering entire countries, sorry buddy the tab is closed. You allow one religion to dominate all others and pass laws to ensure they can never ever gain a foot hold, we answer in kind, your religion is now held accountable, outlawed and your assets ceased. Import and export is fair or you also lose all US business. Limit not only the presidential terms in office, toss those old rejects that continuously screwed us over for personal gain. If eight years is good enough for a president why do we hang onto Congressmen?
    All politicians should have only the same retirement and healthcare programs available to the rest of us. That alone would convince 90% not to even run. I told you an all out assault would not be pretty. Half the battle would be with our selves. House cleaning is needed but look at the money we would save. Our friends would know why they are our friends and our enemies would not be financed by our own failed programs. Pay our military better and you get a better military, the same should apply to our schools, and all forms of public services.

    I know none of that will happen the US will continue on until it falls from within. Somehow someone will consider that a victory. All we have to do to lose is nothing, it really is that simple.

    Comment by Ronin | January 1, 2007 | Reply

  8. Or our national security takes a backseat to coverage of a failing star that can’t afford underwear. I think our priorities as a nation is all screwed up.

    Import and export is fair or you also lose all US business. Limit not only the presidential terms in office, toss those old rejects that continuously screwed us over for personal gain. If eight years is good enough for a president why do we hang onto Congressmen?

    All politicians should have only the same retirement and healthcare programs available to the rest of us.

    Pay our military better and you get a better military, the same should apply to our schools, and all forms of public services.

    I couldn’t agree with you more on these.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right but apple and orange comparison only demoralize the troops and further the cause of the enemy.

    The problem is the troops are already demoralized by what they see and deal with everyday. According to the recent 2006 Military Times Poll:

    For the first time, more troops disapprove of the president’s han dling of the war than approve of it. Barely one-third of service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, according to the Military Times poll.

    When the military was feeling most optimistic about the war — in 2004 — 83 percent of poll re spondents thought success in Iraq was likely. This year, that number has shrunk to 50 percent.

    Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved.

    As to the rest of your screed: All Muslims are not the problem, so stop acting like Sharia is ever going to happen in this country. That is nothing more than a bed-wetter’s stance. “Be afwaid. Be vewwy afwaid!!”

    The other option is not pretty, fight with no limitations. I am not just talking about brute force but an all out us or them attack, control our borders, crack down on media supportive to radical Islam, pass anti treason legislation and enforce it. No more foreign aid of any type for any reason to nations who do not hold themselves to the same high standards we do (I realize we also need work but who is doing it better). You want to brag about murdering entire countries, sorry buddy the tab is closed. You allow one religion to dominate all others and pass laws to ensure they can never ever gain a foot hold, we answer in kind, your religion is now held accountable, outlawed and your assets ceased.

    Yep. Let’s just shred the Constitution and ignore the Bill of Rights. They’re only pieces of ‘paper’ right? Who cares that they survived the British trying to wipe our country off the map, or the Civil War that nearly tore the country apart. Let’s forget about the men and women who bled and died to preserve those very freedoms.

    Either we change to the Islamist view or we save ourselves by allowing Fascism, right? In effect, that is what you’re saying.

    Sorry. I am an American, and I am not afraid. And I will fight anyone who tries to take those Constitutionally-guaranteed rights away from me or any other segment of the population, whether it’s BushCo and the Repubs, or the Democrats, or the Talibangelicals, or any other group.

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 2, 2007 | Reply

  9. You choose to follow the polls, I do not. I am in communication with soldiers on the ground. They go from hating Iraq to loving it. Soldiers bitch that is what they do. As long as the man at risk thinks things are working I will believe him. It is easy to manipulate the press and influence us. Watch your television and you will notice 99% of the reporters always have the exact same Mosque in the back ground. They all stay in one building, they are not travelling around looking for stories, they report what they are told to report. So much for freedom of the press. Re enlistment’s and enlistment’s are high that goes against your polls, those that take the risk keep going back. Are they tired, absolutely but all is not lost yet. The media paints a much bleaker picture than reality.

    We don’t have to shred the Constitution and ignore the Bill of Rights to protect ourselves. You can ignore the peril of Islam if you want but before you dismiss it as just another religious order attempting to raise sweet little children, study it. Ask yourself why they are allowed to teach Islamic Education programs inside our schools, cute program the girls wear little veils and all the kiddies recite the Koran. You can’t say the pledge of allegiance to the United States because it mentions the word “GOD but you can read from one specific religious text. Does this make sense to you? Now call it what it is indoctrination. This is happening all over America, right now. Imagine the uproar if any other type of religion even asked to do a three week program anywhere close to that.

    Why are the Dems quietly pushing to stifle free speech? This is the year conyers will criminalize free speech (HR 288, the pro-jihadist legislation). Soon Islam will be federally protected. They can and do teach death to America and other countries but we will not be allowed and could face jail by speaking out to protect ourselves.

    Don’t take my world for it, do a little research, read newspapers from Germany, France, Australia, Denmark, parts of Canada, and Norway. None of their large Islamic populations have contributed anything except violence, crime and drained the economic base. In several of those countries 60-80% of all Government aid goes to Muslim families (large ones). Demands for sharia are already being heard throughout Europe. Sharia in case you don’t know is not optional for any sect of Islam. It allows multiple wives, which can be traded around because they are only property. Sex with children is allowed, sex with animals is allowed although there are restrictions, slavery is allowed, murder of infidels, homosexuals and other peoples deemed unworthy is not optional, it will be cared out and violently.

    I don’t consider Islam a religion it is a blood cut, spread by the sword and there is no reason it should be constitutionally protected. Ask yourselves why with all the wealth Muslim countries have you still have people eating only one meal a day? That money is going somewhere. I am getting off the Islam kick as that was not my original reason for stopping by your blog. When HR 288 passes, life in America will get interesting. Your children and mine will pay for our mistakes.

    Comment by Ronin | January 2, 2007 | Reply

  10. I don’t ‘follow’ polls, and I don’t watch the news. (Best thing I ever did for myself and my family was get rid of the cable service.) The Military Times poll is simply getting a lot of attention because of the drastic change in the opinions of our service members. A year ago, the Repubs were trumpeting this particular poll because support from the troops was still high.

    What do you mean we wouldn’t have to shred the Constitution, ignore the Bill of Rights? Excuse me?

    Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Islam is not the problem!! Do we have to keep going over this? Islam is practiced by many people who are NOT terrorists. Hell, in my middle-of-nowhere town we have an Islamic Learning Center, set up by one of the most respected pediatricians in our area. He has gone out of his way to talk about his faith, his beliefs, his absolute disgust with those who pervert Islam. Perhaps it’s just that we’re lucky enough to have a world-class teaching hospital with medical professionals from all over the world, but my daughter attends school with children from a variety of religions and not one was anything but horrified and saddened by the Sept. 11th attacks. They went out of their way to tell us this was not Islam.

    Just as a ‘Christian’ who kills an abortion provider or one who blows up a federal building is not truly following the teachings of their religion, so to is a terrorist not truly following the teachings of theirs.

    I can understand where an unenlightened reading of the Qur’an would make one think these are all the things Muslims believe and stand for, but an unenlightened reading of the Christian Bible would fare no better: Giving one’s virgin daughters to a mob to protect male guests? (Genesis 19:8) Rape is fine as long as you pay the father 50 pcs. of silver, marry her, and never divorce? (Deuteronomy 22:28) If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, kill both of them? (Leviticus 20:10) Everyone who doesn’t believe in God (the Jewish one) should be put to death? (2 Chronicles 15:12) No striking of slaves so hard they die, but if they die after a day or two, that’s fine, no punishment? (Exodus 21:20)

    Ask yourself why, with all the wealth in the United States, do we have people only eating one meal a day? Or less. Why do we have 47 million people without health insurance? Why do we have schools in disrepair, with poor/unqualified teachers?

    Our children will be paying for years for the mistakes of the Bush administration. From the trillions in debt to the destruction of our manufacturing base to the very real possibility of an economic depression in the near future if China calls in our loans.

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 2, 2007 | Reply

  11. I am not qualified to argue Christianity vs Islam but I do know the New Testament introduced new laws and modified some of the Christian laws in place before the arrival of Jesus Christ, which is why there is a new testament. I did do a quick search and found the Old Testament verses you quoted are out of context. You are seriously misinformed about Islam. The Koran still teaches the same 7th law it always has, it is a series of life rules and despite the occasional peaceful Muslim it doesn’t change the facts that hundreds of millions of Muslims are violent psychopaths and it is their religious right and obligation. It also doesn’t change the fact it is spread by violence, nor the fact that no culture in the entire history of mankind has killed more people. Granted Muslims kill more Muslims than anyone else but that means little to the victims. Muslim law is clear no Muslim can be guilty of terrorism so no Muslim supports terrorism, the definitions of terrorism, Prophet and the Identity of Jesus are not the same among the competing religions. Islam exists to further the growth of Islam, nothing else matters, not family, nations, or anything else. In short they are a cult, not a religion. Again my purpose was not to start a religious argument or teach you the evils of Islam. There are plenty of sites who have already busted all the PC myths that Muslims worship the same god as the Christians and only a small minority support terrorists. Read them if you want. Please, enough with religion.

    Back to politics, here we have common ground, our economy is in shambles not because of unemployment but because our jobs are flying over seas, our ability to build and operate new factories is questionable at best and our technological superiority is shrinking. What jobs we create are not at the same rate as we are taking in immigrants. Our standard of living is no longer the worlds highest and we still have neither national health care nor a realistic social security program. All of these things do not appear to concern our leadership. I think you blame this all on the republicans and I blame all short sighted politicians who worry more about the next vote than moving our nation forward. I see both parties spending our resources overseas when we need the money here at home. On most points we appear if not close at least we share some common ground. We both want the troops out of Iraq but disagree on when and how. We both support taking care of Americans first but disagree on how.

    We may never agree on which issues are more important and which hold higher priorities but I enjoyed our chats and will stop in from time to time.

    Cheers.

    Comment by Ronin | January 2, 2007 | Reply

  12. Since I’m not a scholar of either religion, I promise I’ll lay off – a little. 🙂 I give notice that I don’t like seeing people lumped into groups based on this or that. It’d be like allowing someone to say all African-Americans are evil because some are in gangs.

    Too be honest, I’m bothered by all religions’ propensity for violence against non-believers and those it deems heretics – not just Islam. Christianity has as much to answer for, in terms of bloodshed and death, as does Islam. Paraphrasing Mark Twain: “The reason I’m not a Christian is that I’ve met some of them.”

    I don’t blame the Repubs solely. However as they have been the majority party – controlling the Congress for 12 years, and all three houses for the past 6, they do get their fair share of blame. The Dems may do better, but … in the end, they’re politicians first. We can count on them only so far, and only during election years. Too often, we let them get sidetracked (or sidetrack us) with a lot of pandering to the Christianists in our midst.

    I do appreciate the discussion, even if we have to agree to disagree on some topics. It’s a pleasure to actually discuss and debate (even if we can’t reach an agreement) rather than going the usual “Liberal idiots!” “Republican morons!” route! Thank you. I hope you’ll stop by often! (I’ll even come and bug you on your ‘home turf’ every now and then!)

    Comment by PA_Lady | January 2, 2007 | Reply

  13. You are always welcome, just leave your friends here. I can’t handle you people in groups, lol j/k.

    Comment by Ronin | January 3, 2007 | Reply


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